64. Foundations of healing with Dr. Marie Matheson

In this podcast, we speak with Canadian naturopathic doctor, Dr. Marie Mathieson. Dr. Matheson is one of a growing number of Canadian clinicians who are helping Lyme patients find solutions and gaining valuable expertise in the process.

She’s co-founder of BioHeal Ottawa and creator and facilitator of the Lyme Bright Collective and Tick Bite Ready. She completed the ILADS Physicians Training Program with the late Dr. Charles Ray Jones. She also serves on the advisory board for the Forum of Integrative Medicine. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Matheson.

The role of Lyme literate naturopathic doctors

Dr. Matheson speaks about the linear nature of routine medical practice and the need to provide more options for patients with Lyme disease. She describes an approach to Lyme disease in which underlying infections are treated alongside other supportive measures. One of the foundations of her own practice has been ongoing education to stay up to date regarding the management of patients with Lyme disease. 

“I just felt like there were other ways to treat or there are more in depth ways to treat patients, and it wasn’t just about a disease state and there you have it, you can cure somebody. Medicine isn’t linear, actually, and patients aren’t linear.”

Dr. Marie Matheson

Ticks and Lyme disease in Ottawa

Reports of ticks and Lyme disease have increased over the past few years. Dr. Matheson explains that she took an interest in Lyme disease after her niece was bitten by a tick, and this interest evolved after other personal encounters with ticks and Lyme disease. This encouraged her to increase her knowledge beyond what she had learned during her training as a naturopathic doctor.

Kids and Lyme disease

Dr. Matheson trained with a US physician who treated many children with Lyme disease. She explains that there are many different ways that children present with Lyme disease, and describes some of the differences in assessing and treating children. 

“So with kids…they’re also not very good at communicating their symptoms…they don’t understand numbness and tingling, you know, is your foot asleep…so I think it’s also learning the language behind trying to extrapolate some of those symptoms from these kids. I will say, for the most part, they generally heal faster than adults, although in the last three years, I’ve seen, you know, a change in the child, and that we’re seeing a lot sicker children.”

Dr. Marie Matheson

Collaborations are key

Dr. Matheson talks about the importance of collaboration when managing Lyme patients. Naturopathic doctors in most provinces in Canada are unable to prescribe antibiotics; some have developed collaborations with medical doctors when antibiotics treatment is needed. There are many other ways though that patients can improve their health and reduce symptoms. Dr. Matheson talks about things like nutrition, getting outdoors and other modalities that are helping Lyme patients.

Comprehensive approach

Dr. Matheson describes her methodology pyramid which she calls her road to recovery. Detoxification, looking at co-infections, mold and biofilms, herbal formulations, and looking after the microbiome are all aspects of her approach. She also talks about the ways that patients can become empowered to understand their own bodies and make changes that will optimize their health. Again she talks about the benefits of going outdoors, eating healthy foods and drinking clean water.

“You’ve got a four week window (for early treatment). So if you can get this treated within that four week window, you have less chances of this going into sequelae of chronic Lyme disease. So the faster, the more aggressive, the more all encompassing we take this, the better it is for our patients all around.”

Dr. Marie Matheson

Ongoing education and how to choose a practitioner

Dr. Matheson reiterates the importance of ongoing education. She recommends that clinicians attend courses and conferences, and believes that a shift will occur when doctors receive more comprehensive training during medical school. She also recommends that patients do their own research before deciding which practitioner to see for their Lyme disease, and talks about some of the learning programs she has developed as well. Thank you Dr. Matheson for sharing your perspective on managing patients with tick-borne infections in Canada. 

“Every patient is different. Not everybody has frontal headaches or heart palpitations or shortness of breath. Some present with numbness and tingling. But then I look at the person in front of me. So it’s not the disease state or the infections. And yes, we test for the infections to see what they might be having, but, did that person have anxiety and depression prior to the tick bite? Were they living in mold? You know, do they have a support system around them?”

Dr. Marie Matheson

Transcript

 Catherine: Welcome to Looking at Lyme, an educational podcast of the Canadian Lyme Disease Foundation, designed to increase awareness, empower listeners with expert knowledge, and explore solutions. I’m Catherine Kinsella. 

In this podcast, we speak with Canadian naturopath, Dr. Marie Mathieson. Dr. Matheson is one of a growing number of Canadian clinicians who are helping Lyme patients find solutions and gaining valuable expertise in the process.

She’s co-founder of BioHeal Ottawa and creator and facilitator of the Lyme Bright Collective and Tick Bite Ready. She completed the ILADS Physicians Training Program with the late Dr. Charles Ray Jones. She also serves on the advisory board for the Forum of Integrative Medicine. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Matheson. 

Dr. Matheson: Thank you, Catherine. Thank you so much for having me. Such an honor. 

Catherine Kinsella: We’ve had a few US naturopaths on the podcast in the past, so I’m interested to hear your perspective as a Canadian naturopath treating Lyme patients. I’m interested to know, first of all, what inspired you to become a naturopath?  

Dr. Matheson: Wow, gosh, to become a naturopath, I just felt like there were other ways to treat or there are more in depth ways to treat patients, and it wasn’t just about a disease state and there you have it, you can cure somebody. Medicine isn’t linear, actually, and patients aren’t linear and that linear way of thinking just didn’t jive with me. And once I started to realize that there were so much more options for patients in terms of, hey, what if you start to detox and open up that drainage pathway, then can symptoms actually start to decrease themselves?

Once you start treating underlying infections, patients would start to get better. And so I just felt like that was just a better path for me. Anyways, I think we need both. But for me, it was a better path.  

Catherine Kinsella: So, what are some of the reasons that Canadian Lyme patients see a naturopath? 

Dr. Matheson: Some of the primary reasons as to why a lot of Canadians end up seeing a Lyme literate naturopathic doctor, I should say, so that’s kind of important, and it’s not an accreditation wording or anything of that nature, it’s just that I’ve done a lot of courses and mentorships in order to gain asset to a lot of knowledge. And so one of the primary reasons is that I suppose number one, they’re not getting the care they need from primary physicians, unfortunately. And I don’t know. Yes, I think that physicians’ hands are tied, but I also think that there’s a lack of education or lack of knowledge on their part to understand, really what Lyme disease entails.

I mean, Catherine, up until three years ago. There were no ticks in Ottawa. So yes, we’ve evolved. At least I see signage in Gatineau Park and, you know, in Ontario, but, you know, things are evolving every year where we’re gaining more knowledge, but there is a lack of knowledge. And so patients who otherwise honestly wouldn’t see a naturopathic doctor, because they got bitten by a tick, they’re sort of forced to come this way, and then of course are just thrilled with the care that they get. That’s certainly an important piece to note. And going back to why I became a naturopath, but more so going back to why I ended up treating Lyme disease, I just wanted to say a little shout out to my niece Mia. Unfortunately Mia was bitten by a tick and I didn’t know what to do.

So, in medical school, in naturopathic medical school, it was equally untaught there. So, I just wanted to say that, that, uh, that things have evolved since then, but my knowledge base was very poor and so if it wasn’t for me as a journey, I wouldn’t be here today helping so many others. And then, of course, my own children’s journey, et cetera, my tick bite in 2021, so all of that, you know, me as the reason why I’m doing what I do today. 

Catherine Kinsella: And your bio states that you trained with Dr. Charles Ray Jones, and I know he treated a lot of children with Lyme disease. Are there children in your practice as well? 

Dr. Matheson: Yes, absolutely. So, you know, there’s some clinical pearls I learned from Dr. Jones. You know, it was just such an honor, honestly, to be able to be within his presence and see his bedside manner with the kiddos. But there’s some really keynote things that he’s taught me throughout the years. You know, number one is a child with a seizure. Dr. Jones always said, you must rule out Bartonella.

If a child is bitten above the neck and or the head, it leads to much more, greater serious complications or neurological symptoms. So where the bite is, is also in involvement in terms of of the children, he always actually said you shouldn’t pulse antibiotics with children. You should always consider just keeping them on the course, they’re not like adults. And so, you know, these pearls, I still sort of carry with me and that knowledge base. But, you know, it was honestly just such a lucky break. And I’m super grateful to ILADS, the International Lyme and Associated Disease Society for sponsoring that mentorship and sending me down to be with him.

And that was just, that tail spinned my journey and then I just was ravenous for more information and more conferences and, and, um, I still am. So it’s great.

Catherine Kinsella: Wonderful. It’s ongoing. The learning is ongoing. And so with children, do you see that they present differently than adults with Lyme disease? 

Dr. Matheson: So with kids, yes and no. So a lot of them will suffer a lot of stomach aches. So Lyme will end up giving those kids a lot of tummy aches, whether it’s Bartonella or Lyme. They’re also not very good at communicating their symptoms, so I kind of have to use sort of childlike, you know, is it an ouchie, you know, does it sting like a bee, you know, so they don’t understand numbness and tingling, you know, is your foot asleep?

That’s so I think it’s also learning the language behind trying to extrapolate some of those symptoms from these kids. I will say, for the most part, they generally heal faster than adults. Although in the last 3 years, I’ve seen, you know, a change in the child population and that we’re seeing a lot sicker children, whether that’s from our toxic planet, whether that’s COVID, that’s spun a little things to things, but they’re generally easier to treat than adults.

In fact, my adult patients go, hey, how come my son is better after three treatments? And you know, I’m still here six months later, right? So they are generally a lot easier to treat. That’s for sure. 

Catherine Kinsella: And I was going to ask you, most naturopathic doctors in Canada aren’t able to prescribe antibiotics. What do you do if your patients require antibiotics? 

Dr. Matheson: Yeah, so there are some physicians and some nurse practitioners that I work hand in hand with that will prescribe, but that’s a liaison that I forged with them in a great relationship that I’ve sort of brought them along the way. And so when that is of need, especially, I am still an advocate that a fresh tick bite really does require antibiotics, that’s a sure thing for me. Then I can find a doctor that will, that will help our patients, but they still need herbal protocol. We need to make sure that they’re on specific probiotics, especially Saccharomyces boulardii to prevent C. diff. So all of these things, we check lab work. We make sure that they’re not exposed to sunshine.

You know, we talk about all those things, calcium, magnesium with doxycycline. There’s a competition there. So we really do make sure that our patients are really being taken care of, well rounded. And then we consider testing at that point later on to make sure that the infection has indeed been taken care of appropriately, because, as you know, you know, Charles Ray Jones always said there’s, you’ve got a four week window. So if you can get this treated within that four week window, you have less chances of this going into sequelae of chronic Lyme disease. So the faster, the more aggressive, the more all encompassing we take this, the better it is for our patients all around. 

Catherine Kinsella: Can you talk about your general approach to treating Lyme patients?

Dr. Matheson: Yeah, thanks for asking because, you know, Lyme patients, I always get asked, are you bored treating what you’re doing, like day after day? But the answer is no, because every patient is different. Not everybody has frontal headaches or heart palpitations or shortness of breath. Some present with numbness and tingling, but then I look at the person in front of me. So it’s not the disease state or the infections. Yes, we test for the infections to see what they might be having, but.  Did that person have anxiety and depression prior to the tick bite? Were they living in mold?

You know, do they have a support system around them? Were they eating McDonald’s three times a day? Right? So all of those factor into how I go about treating a patient. Is there PTSD or limbic system or vagus nerve dysfunction related to the illness itself? And that in itself can heal patients. Many times patients undergo limbic system trainings, where they perceive everything as a threat, and then their symptomologies sort of progress or accentuate or augment/ Many times when we start them on that sort of journey, I can see patients just getting better without supplements alone by 50%.  Some just get better by 90 percent by removing gluten and sugar. So diet is a really important piece, which is not why it’s not just about treating the infection. And mold is the most important piece.

And I think the light bulb went off for me about 8 years ago, when I realized 20 percent of my Lyme patients weren’t really getting better. And I realized I was missing mold. And so once I make sure that I address that with every single one of my patients, or at least rule it in or out, then I see a much more, a higher rate of success with patients.

And so then we take them through whether there’s parasites. Are there fungal issues? You know, what about all the co-infections we talked about? And then we move them into the restoration phase of looking at heavy metals and mitochondria, especially if they’re not better or they’re only 80 percent better.

So it’s a methodology pyramid I call it. It’s my road to recovery that I’ve coined that has been very helpful and help, having patients understand the journey. So your pyramid’s going to fall apart if you’re not eating well, no matter how many antibiotics you take. 

So my approach is not one fits all. It is not the same for everybody, unfortunately, but when you’re seen by a skilled naturopathic doctor who knows what to look for and what clues to look for, then we can move patients along a lot faster. Some people move through that pyramid very quickly because they’ve addressed all those things prior to coming.

So everybody’s different and we take patients where they’re at. And the reason I think that herbals work so well is because they’re so umbrella-like in action. So even though I’ve got a treatment for Lyme, it might actually cover a little bit of Bartonella, a little bit of Ehrlichia Anaplasma, which is a growing infection here in Ontario and Quebec.

And they might help with detoxification. They may help with some viruses. They may be really helpful for patients who’ve been on antibiotics for years and have a destroyed gut lining. So there are so many benefits to herbal nutraceuticals that we see with our patient population, and they tend to do really, really well.

Catherine Kinsella: Yeah, I’ve heard that before with herbals as well, being used for people that might relapse and after antibiotics and then they go into the herbal route. 

Dr. Matheson: Correct. And that’s the point with the fresh tick bite is to keep somebody on a herbal route, stop the antibiotics if that’s appropriate, and then keep them on a herbal regime for that fresh tick bite for another two, three weeks to really ensure that we’ve addressed the biofilms potentially, that we’ve addressed all of the infection out of the body so that the immune system can function appropriately. 

Catherine Kinsella: One of the things I read on your website was that your goal is to help patients become empowered. Can you talk more about that? 

Dr. Matheson: Oh, yeah. Thank you. I actually talk about this probably like five times a day in the clinic. Um, you know, my, I always tell my patients, they laugh. They’re like, I say, the goal is to teach you how to stay out of my office. Right. The goal is to empower you. And, you know, as doctor, as teachers, one of my Hippocratic oaths as a doctor, as a naturopathic doctor, is to teach my patients what’s wrong with them is to kind of go, okay, so you’ve got nausea. Nausea is associated with a congested liver and gallbladder, you know? Okay. So you’ve got these symptoms. This could be this. And I also teach about, you know, the Achilles heel, if you will, you know, this may be a reminder that, you know, if you eat too much sugar and you get numbness in that thumb, that’s a reminder that you’re a little out of balance and that you need to stop eating the sugar and actually reverse things, and you’ll see that you will not relapse with Lyme.

So I teach them these things to find clues within their own bodies, to empower them to feel better without always having to depend on a doctor to get better. So I say, I’m always here when you’ve tried the things that we’ve talked about, and they don’t work, then you come back and see me, but my goal is to keep you out of my office so that you can be as healthy as possible. 

And that goes back to foundations. Simple things like eating really well, eating non GMO organic as much as possible, spending time outside, getting out in the sun. That’s that 480 nanometer light, UV light that is so important for our healing. I mean, this is the whole red light therapy that you hear about. That’s the light. So just get out upon sunrise to 10 AM, get exposure on your skin. So some of these basics, fresh air, good water and good nutrition, and just doing those things alone can really help empower patients to kind of go, yeah, you know what?

I might not be pooping today because I didn’t drink enough water. And  when’s the last time I had, you know, some fiber in my diet or, you know, I didn’t have any green vegetables today. So, so I teach patients why, why am I having the symptoms and what’s involved in it? 

Catherine Kinsella: So important to know too, that there are things that you can do that don’t cost a lot of money.

Dr. Matheson: Correct. 

Catherine Kinsella: You just need some guidance and coaching with that. So you talked earlier about collaborating with other health care providers. From your perspective, is there anything that could improve collaboration between healthcare providers? 

Dr. Matherson: I think that if some of these providers would actually join us at some of our annual conferences, so the ILADS annual meeting, I mean, there’s 2, there’s 1 in Europe in the spring, and then the annual meetings, typically October, November. It would be great to see those doctors at these conferences so that they can hear it firsthand. So, or the Forum for Integrative Medicine is another fantastic conference for complex chronic illness. So I think that, yes, hands are tied.

However, if we were better educated, we’d better be able to advocate for ourselves and maybe have the platform to push back a little and say, wait a second. No, I’m, I’m learning something different. But unfortunately, Catherine, the doctors, some of the doctors who are working in this realm, are kind of like me, it comes firsthand.

They have a personal experience with it. It’s their daughter that got bitten. So these medical doctors that, ILADS is made out of 90 percent medical doctors. Right? And so some, most of these doctors have been affected themselves or have children who’ve been affected or family members. So, unfortunately, until it happens to them personally, we may not see a shift, but at the very least, I think if we were better educated in medical schools and naturopathic medical schools as well, I think that we might see a shift in that collaboration, but I think it starts with education. 

Catherine Kinsella: Yeah, I totally agree with that. And CanLyme does have some education grants for clinicians.

Dr. Matheson: Oh, fantastic. 

Catherine Kinsella: Yeah. If they’re interested in learning more. So what should patients look for when they’re trying to decide what practitioner they should see for their Lyme disease?  

Dr. Matheson: Yeah, so I would, I mean, ideally you find a practitioner who is a member of ILADS, so International Lyme Associated Diseases Society, but if they don’t have to be, I think that if the practitioner is well versed in treatment of Lyme, and if they understand complex chronic illnesses, they, they attend some of these conferences, then they could be a great suit for that, but I think that we need to do more research than what’s just on the website. So for example, you might see a massage therapist who says that she does lymphatic drainage, but you know, she took a course after school for like a weekend and that was it.

Whereas, you know, somebody who truly does lymphatic drainage, does it day on end. So you want to find a doctor who sort of has a niche for something. So I don’t pretend to know everything about cancer. Cancer is, oncology is just such a huge other realm to be up and up on all the research. I’m up and up on all the Lyme research, because that’s my niche, and that’s what I spend all my time doing and mold. So, I think that you really just need to find a doctor who’s not so much of a generalist, but more of somebody who’s sort of niched in that department.  

Catherine Kinsella: Right. And then I guess if they don’t see what they’re looking for on a website or…

Dr. Matheson: It’s to call 

Catherine Kinsella: So you can call and talk and ask questions?

Dr. Matheson: They’ll get a feel, you know, I always say my, my Lyme patients, my patients are probably in some ways more educated than some of the generalist naturopathic doctors, colleagues of mine, right? I mean, they know what they’re talking about because they’ve had to advocate for themselves, they’ve had no choice. So, you know, knowing some of the questions to ask and you know, how long has the doctor been treating this and do they majority of their patients, are they these types of patients, et cetera. So getting a call, feedback from your call or email is also helpful and, and reaching out to CanLyme and, and, you know, and, and getting some references from you guys as well.

Catherine Kinsella: Yeah. And talking to other people. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with our listeners? 

Dr. Matheson: Well, the last thing I’d like to share is, is just that I’ve developed 2 courses. One is LymeBright Collective. It’s a group program. It’s also an evergreen, meaning that they can access the course itself on the website and the other one is called Tick Bite Ready.

So, if you’ve got, you don’t know what to do after a tick bite, I take you from A to Z, to know exactly how to identify, how to treat, how to prevent, et cetera. And I did these because of, to honestly, to, to make right of the lack of information that’s out there from the media and CBC that, you know, you have to have a bullseye rash or that the tick has to be attached for 24 hours or et cetera. And, you know, and so I designed these courses to really help patients. So the Tick Bite Ready will help with the tick bite and LymeBright Collective is just from point A to Z about my pyramid about limbic system dysfunction, the politics, the symptomology, how to eat, how to breathe, how to treat these infections and what to look for and resources that way.

So they’re both really great courses. 

Catherine Kinsella: And what is your website?  

Dr. Matheson: www.biohealottawa.com. 

Catherine Kinsella: Okay. Wonderful. Well, thank you for joining us today in the podcast.

Dr. Matheson: Thank you, Catherine. Thanks. It was a pleasure. Thanks for doing this. Take care of everybody.

Sofia Osborne: Thanks for sharing that interview, Catherine. It was interesting to hear Dr. Matheson’s perspective as a naturopathic doctor and the way she approaches working with and empowering her patients.

Catherine Kinsella: As I was listening to Dr. Matheson, I was thinking about all of the Canadian Lyme patients who’ve traveled and even stayed in the US in order to receive treatment for Lyme disease. Many patients still go to the States, but it’s interesting to see how Canadian clinicians have stepped up over the past decade to help patients that don’t want to travel outside the country for treatment. 

The other thing that stood out for me was the way that Naturopathic doctors are starting to form collaborations with medical doctors, and nurse practitioners and other health professionals. That seems like a really good solution for complex chronic diseases like Lyme. 

Sofia: Yeah, I was noticing collaboration really seems to be a theme that has been coming up in a lot of our interviews, and I noticed that here as well. Well, make sure to tune in next time as we engage with more experts from Canada and around the world.